Debate Battle! Nuclear Desalination or Natural Water Infrastructure?
In both the developed world and those still developing, the situation looks grim, as more and more water from rivers is syphoned off for agriculture, or polluted by globally expanding industry.
In Australia, a clear example of the burden and diminishing health of our waterways can be seen by the rise in demand over the past 300 years, along Australia’s eastern coastline. This thin strip of green land now supports approx 14 million people, as opposed to an estimated 100,000 aboriginals in 1788.
With governments continuing to turn a blind eye towards the deepening desperation of the situation and the real need for new infrastructure to harvest storm water, the question of Nuclear Desalination Plants persists as the breakthrough technology, which can save us all from our future thirst.
View of the only nuclear-heated desalination unit in the world – The Shevchenko BN350 desalination unit, Russia.
The mainstay of the argument remains that with new technological advances over the last 30 years, building a nuclear desalination has tremendously reduced in capital costs. Promoters claim that this makes desalination projects more viable as an alternative solution to other ‘costly new water infrastructure development.’
The truth however, may be something else because desalination plants require huge amounts of energy to turn seawater into drinking water, which raises the issue of water pricing and the future costs of water. We currently pay little more than AUD $1 for each tonne of water we use. Charge too much … and you risk pricing lower income earners out of the water market.
A shocking claim, following economic feasibility tests first carried out in the 1960’s by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) and a few independent countries, whose results declared that nuclear desalination systems are an ‘…ecologically safe and feasible way to overcome the expected water shortage in the medium and long term, as well as providing electrical power and low GHG emissions.’
Of course, the issues of safety and radioactive waste storage of the high-yield, enriched plutonium needed to run a thermal desalination unit, remains precarious and mostly under-reported, as does the economic downturn of suburban property located near a Nuclear Plant.
Not to mention the short sightedness of uranium running out one day, just like oil reserves.
In fact, why nuclear desalination at all?
Of course, this should be done for free, or by offering REAL financial relief to each household through a more supportive scheme, which actively promotes water tanks and water efficient devices.
The costs would certainly be less than $2 billion, not to mention better long term benefit to the people.
The technology also exists today to recycle water effectively and is currently in use all over the world. These recycling plants have been running successfully without nuclear desalination for many years with the addition of added domestic filtering devices. Using wind turbines or solar power for the operating machinery, these processing plants are much cheaper to build and run, and require little maintenance with no risk to the population, or surrounding eco-systems.
Powered by only wind energy, the MaxWater is very environmentally friendly as there is no additional fuel power required to turn the turbine for the condensation process to take place. Amazingly, it is said to be able to supply 10,000 litres of water for daily consumption. However, this estimation could be based on certain environments with high humidity, but the MaxWater seems to me, to be perfectly suited to the roofs of Australian coastal homes, generously put there with a government subsidy … and all at a fraction of the cost of building desalination, or recycling plants.
Learn more about the MaxWater (including a video on how it works),
<< here >>
Is Nuclear Desalination better than Natural new Water Infrastructure just because (in the short term) it is quick and profitable, or is it another short-sighted bandaid measure to cover the real issues?
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Desalination plants are not the answer they may provide a short term solution but apart from the nuclear wast what are we to do with the excess salt produced flush back in the ocean?
Whith the amount of humidity it is possible to extract water from the "air" by cooling the water then condenses and forms droplets of water. Just put some ice in a glass and you can see the water forming on the outer rim of the glass.
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It sounds to me that nuclear desalination should be a last resort. Before I read this post I had thought that desalination powered by other renewable energy sources would be fine, however your points about the concentrated brine and sucking in the sea life are well made.
I think water recycling will be forced onto a reluctant and squirmish public through necessity more than anything. I also agree that storm water should be recycled. Along with more rainwater tanks for households, we could probably solve most of the water problems in many places. All it would take is a little bit of political bravery.
I'd never heard of the MaxWater, but it sounds amazing. Do you know how much they cost and if they are available in Oz? Someone should test one out in Sydney to see how it goes. It's like something out of science fiction!
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Exactly the principle of the MaxWater and I agree that a slight modification and they would probably produce a fair amount of water in dryer climates too … it certainly leaves one to wonder why, with such brilliant technology, we would have to even consider nuclear desalination in the first place?
Thanks for stopping by.
Lilla …
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Thank you for the compliment, I am glad it is informative.
I have a strong hope that this new government will furnish the ‘political bravery’ that you so rightly suggest ... one must keep in mind though, that narrow minded traditionalism is far from dead because of the obvious need for governments to remain financially sustainable. ... Unfortunately, that looks like uranium sales for Australia, which ever way I look at it.
I hope to God I am wrong.
I have emailed the admin at waterunlimited to get a price… meanwhile, you might like to snoop around <<here>> to see what you find out.
I’d be interested to know the price, if you find out before I do.
Thanks
Lilla …
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Desalination is such a slapped together approach, if the numbers from your post are correct. Too much energy.
It rains so much in Sydney, but nowhere near the catchment... I read that they'll tap into the pure water under Centennial Park. Maybe they need more approaches like this?
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thanks for this lotsa information here.....
I see red every time the word Nuclear is used but you have manged to maintain composure and give a balanced article. kudos.....
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Great minds think alike! It was my first thought when I read about them, too, and to me the sanest of all the inventions in this water genre so far. I live in SE Queensland where the humidity on the coast is (this summer particularly) around 80-90%...can you imagine this device throughout Indonesia and the pacific too, especially where poverty exists and clean drinking water remains inaccessible?
I can never understand why governments can’t be made to spend our money more sensibly? They are public servants and yet all I see is them serving themselves.. to me that never equates to democracy and certainly not as the declaration of indepence words things.
Hey, that is exciting news about Centennial Park having an underground lake… I bet there are more around Australia too… but my feelings are that they should also create means of replenishing these natural underground reservoirs, through re-routed stormwater drainage.
Again, just like the underwater supplies in DUNE… was Herbert a visionary or what?
Thanks for stopping by
Lilla …
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Moot indeed, yet they continue to push nuclear desalination down our throats as the ONLY way forward.
Aqueducts are extensively used here in Queensland in the sugar industry. I’m not sure about other crops further south, say around the Murray Darling waterway, where I think they may pump the water, rather than create natural aqueducts.
The problem is that as agricultural demands grow along with the widening periods of drought, the rivers are at all time lows and now also bear the burden of pollution from expanding industry and abattoir run-off.
I guess this would be the same in most countries too, certainly China, and specifically India, where the climate is also quite arid.
The point is that with so many natural alternatives, pushing nuclear desalination as a way forward really only makes governments look like racketeers for the profits from uranium to me … which btw Australia has buckets of the stuff.
Great to hear your viewpoint, thanks for stopping by.
I hope your tour was enjoyable and successful.
Lilla …
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Thank you for the lovely compliment.
As I said to Cibby, I can never understand why governments can’t be made to spend our money more sensibly? They are public servants and yet all I see is them serving themselves ... to me that never equates to democracy and certainly not as the declaration of independence words things…
Me, I see purple on this one, no doubts… but I have learned the hard way, that yelling doesn’t help *chuckle* I’ve been hung up on a couple times in my life
Thanks for stopping by, I’m glad the info is interesting.
Lilla …
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I hear you, and the truth is they are probably safer than fluoride in the water supply itself, but the fact remains that they are totally unnecessary unless you are a government trying to maintain its own sustainability economically.
Can you help me to understand why it would be better to have a nuclear reactor in your back yard, than a MaxWater?
Appreciate you stopping by, going to read your post now, thanks.
Lilla …
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Well the desalination plant is going ahead, even though I've heard the line that it is only going to be used if we reach a particular level in our dams.
But in reality I think they are going to build and say, 'well we've spent all this money, let's use it'.
At the moment Warragamba Dam has a film of algae on the water's surface which is a concern for Sydney residents.
Warragamba is Sydney's biggest dam and it is currently at about 60% capacity. I think this time last year it was just under 40%. But it almost doesn't matter how full it is, because that algae is a concern.
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Thank you so much for the well researched post regarding this matter. I did not know what was available to address concerns regarding another of our shrinking planetary resources. You are certainly a warrior for our environment!
Mis
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I am not surprised because I knew they would when Labor changed its nuclear policy to ‘get in.’
I hear you on the algae business and who knows, with the way we continue to consume and pollute, the desalination plant may be the very thing that saves us all, with fresh water no longer available anywhere else…*hangs head* sad days ahead if change doesn’t continue to become the precedent.
Thanks for stopping by, it is lovely to see you again.
Lilla …
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Thanks for the compliment.
I can't do much, but raise awareness ... I think our survival as a species lies in being able to make informed choices and hope this blog helps towards achieving that.
Thanks for stopping by.
Lilla ...
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Once again your myopic view of our future on this planet has sent shivers through my system ... sadly it's the exact view that is shared by the money hungry, power-minded, self- seeking oligarchy on the planet, causing the problems in the first place...
*hangs head*
Lilla ...
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What you seem to be missing here is the point .... and that is that nuclear desalination (infact all nuclear methods of generating power or clean water or whatever), is the only example of wastefulness that I can see, because it relies of a FINITE suplly. Further, short-sightedness of implementing millions of dollars worth of infrastructure based on a such a substance.
A picture comes to mind here :
What will you have us build when the Uranium is all dug up Howard, and the oceans are like the dead sea from concetrated saline?
Meanwhile billions of kiloetres of water has washed into the sea, uncollected...whilst you think about it.
The CRIME here, as I see it, is in not using the dollars we already have from pumping up oil, to build lasting infrastructure that can continue to supply both clean water and energy from RENEWABLE sources, that will not deplete within time - after the FINITE sources have run out. To continue to pretend they won't is, well ... both ignorant and arrogant.
The problem as I have said to you before, is in the profit. This is once again, a traditionalists fear of change and shaking the status quo to reveal that there is indeed much profit in clean RENEWABLE ENERGY and water harvesting... it just means that the one's reaping all the profit on the lands back now, may not be the ones who continue to do so. Heavy going for multi-millionares.
Nuclear is not the way forward in a major sense.
Lilla ...
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It amazes me how sold on deadly compounds you really are.. and that’s without any pessimism… truly. Are you an alien that is not carbon based?
I have heard of Thorium indeed, and here I have extracted a section from an AEC book published on thorium in the late 1950s.
Not only that but I understand that in processing it we also have to worry about radium isotopes and other compounds deadly in large doses.
Whilst another natural particle in our atmosphere and harmless at low levels; if we mine it and dispose of oodles of concentrated waste, we will not only have uranium to worry about, but also thorium and radium to dispose of aswell!
*slapping forehead* ...some future for our kids ...
I’m sure India and Australia will be well utilized for that job, long before the current US administration considers dumping it there.
As for renewable energy being harvested as a 'pessimistic point of view?' Well, I think you are deluded ... with or without LaRouche’s mumbo Jumbo, and I have to wonder which ward you write from, not to consider the MaxWater "creative."
For the record, I do not support any conquering country or nation, even yours.
Lillla …
PS I am happy to debate things with you, but please refrain from insulting me, or you will leave me no alternative but to delete your comments, once again.
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There must be a way to harvest what falls there as all that lovely fresh water just goes straight down the stormwater drains!
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Abosolutely! Okay, so they may not be able to harvest every drop in every suburb with large infrastructure... but how much would it take to offer a REAL subsidy to house owners by passing legislation that makes it illegal not to have a raintank in every yard. Even if it was just used to flush the toilets of Australia it would make a HUGE difference and probably reach some phenominal statistic that would end up on your blog *lol*
It is really nice to see you again Melissa, thanks for stopping by.
Lilla ...
To produce 1GW of electricity -
Uranium plant, 35 tons of uranium, 35 tons of waste - radioactive for 10000 years.
Thorium plant, 1 ton of Thorium, 170kgs waste half of this constitutes high value saleable medical isotopes and the remainder radioactive for 300 years.
The high temperature Thorium reactor uses a closed gas cycle that doesnt need cooling by seawater although the hot gas can be used to desalinate huge amounts of seawater very cheaply, the brine can be ixed with existing seawater and pumped back out to sea at multiple discharge points in high currant areas, this would have a minimal impact on sea life.
Dont forget stormwater is heavily contaminated by heavy metals, chemicals and hydrocarbons like oil and has to be extensively treated before it can be used for potable water, this takes a large amount of energy.
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Thanks for taking the time to put your point across, I am sure many will agree with you in your assumptions and assertions, but you must understand a couple points about the envirowarrior within to fully understand where I am coming from.
Firstly, I will NEVER accept that we need nuclear reactors for anything, expect to patch up botched mismanagement of natural resources, caused in the first place by unscrupulous, short sighted, money hungry corporate types, who see nothing but bottom lines and profit margins.
Secondly, the LONG TERM consequences of dumping 100% brine back into the sea is horrifying and is already taking its toll in the seas around Japan and the Gold Coast, Australia. Why do you think the Japanese fish everywhere but in their own back sea? Please dig a little deeper to understand this situation more fully when you research. Your research is not complete, or rounded.
This is compounded too by the fact, that in places like Indonesia the salinity of the seas have already risen some 25% (causing damage and changes), because of the nations successful efforts to harvest the storm water run off.
One thing that we may yet live to see make more freshwater ice melting from the poles a good thing?
As for harvesting storm water run off, your facts, whilst accurate bear no witness to the truth of how easy it is to use a system of holding ponds, large vats of natural bacteria to fight the bad stuff, and amazingly simple and ingenious filtration systems, to create some of the purest water on the planet, for very little added infrastructure costs (above the initial piping and holding tanks are in place [as in parts of Europe, Israel, India and Indonesia]). It is just as I said, a matter of proper management, not short sighted profits.
Have a look at my post on simple desalination methods now available even for brakish water <<here>>.
I worked in Hydraulic engineer in Canberra for many years and again was involved in mine remediation in SE NSW. Both situations revealed how sewerage and even water leaching out of a mine, fully contaminated with heavy metals, can both be used as sources of very clean fresh water : the latter now some of the purest in Australia thanks to a new state of the art filtration system create, and shipped in from W.A.
Surely, you realize that surface rainwater run off holds little challenge in purifying technology available to engineers today .. and even less to create long term SUSTAINABLE / RENEWABLE alternatives against the nuclear alternatives you hold up as the best model.
If you do not, then we have no further need to argue the point. It is each to their own.
Lilla..